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Post by Hercules on Dec 28, 2016 11:00:41 GMT
Sometimes when I get together with my christian friends we get skeptical.
Our most common complaint. Is how did a mouse or rodent turn into a bird. What is the incentive is just growing a few feathers and the start of some wings (That can't fly) how do fledgling 1 inch wings give you a natural advantage for mating or in nature.
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Post by David on Dec 28, 2016 14:31:54 GMT
I welcome this topic (big time) for there is many permutations of what folk believe
(or not as the case me be) in individual minds...
to take into consideration which no one person can declare definitely as absolute or obsolete Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 16:19:36 GMT
The mouse didn't...birds preceded mammals. In this pic: gill slits and tails are prominent in the embryos. They grow in complexity from fish through man but they're present in all. This so clearly demonstrates our evolutionary lineage that further arguments seem pointless. Natural selection isn't the only variable in why birds may have vestigial wings...positive mutations also come into play. We weren't there to watch all this so we must draw conclusions from present observation, deduction, and fossils.
The fact that all life continuously evolves from simple to complex is (IMO) the greatest single argument for a guiding force in the universe. Nature, through evolution...is perfecting her experiment...we're it. Unfortunately, we're a long way from perfect and we may disappoint our maker...and she'll have to start all over...again. 
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Post by mike412 on Dec 28, 2016 16:47:38 GMT
I think it's possible that humans are a product of pigs. I'm a freethinker.  Yeah I need to read that book Animal Farm by George Orwell. I have read that pig to human organ transplant is possible and that our dna is similar to pigs just like primates. I don't know if you've seen this video Keith but it's pretty good. I don't think our maker would bother to re-make us if we go the way of the dinosaurs we'll just go the way of the dinosaurs and our maker may be teased by makers of other worlds if there is more for have created such a disappointment and that'll just be that. Right in two By: Tool (video by a man from France) www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj-10lIrboM |
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Post by mike412 on Dec 28, 2016 23:37:51 GMT
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Post by mike412 on Dec 29, 2016 0:36:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 3:42:37 GMT
If you're reading fictional "Animal Farm" , you might as well read it's factual complement: "The Naked Ape" .
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Ape
I gave the book to a fundamentalist friend...we weren't friends after that. Here's some excerpted info from a different source......
"Parts of the genome that don't encode proteins tend to evolve rapidly, so you can have significant regions of the genome where there's no discernible similarity between species, says Moran. This means many sequences will not line up when you compare genomes between species. And the further away two species are on the evolutionary tree, the greater the difference. If we compare really closely related species, like a human and chimpanzee, we can still see the similarity between these rapidly changing sequences. If you move further away to the more distantly related pig, so many changes in the DNA will have occurred that it is no longer possible to recognise that the sequences were ever similar.
The success of pig-human transplants has very little to do with whether there's a two per cent or 20 per cent difference in the genome sequence — if those numbers actually meant anything anyway — the main barrier is caused by just one gene. That gene is called gal-transferase. All mammals except humans and higher apes have a working version of gal-transferase, which coats cells with an antigen (a molecule that our immune system reacts to). This means if pig tissue is transplanted into humans our immune system will mount a drastic rejection response as our bodies detect the antigen and attack it. Scientists have come up with a solution to stop tissue rejection: genetically modifying the pigs by eliminating the gal-transferase gene. A few more human genes are also added to the pigs to make the pig tissue even more acceptable to our immune system. So some pigs and humans are now even more alike." Chris Moran is a professor of animal genetics at the University of Sydney's Faculty of Veterinary Science.
I think Kramer and I have both seen several of these people. Feel free to think freely. Sounds like maybe we will create a pigman...from manipulated pig genes.
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Post by Hercules on Dec 29, 2016 6:28:40 GMT
Animal Farm is a sensational book and you should read it. You won't be able to put it down. 1984 is also magnificent, and it will prove to be the 2nd most important book written in the english language in a few years from now as we begin to question the right to privacy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 9:38:39 GMT
Complete the trilogy..."Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. His predicted world of 2540, written in 1931...is here today. The novel anticipates developments in reproductive technology, auto suggestion, psychological manipulation, and classical conditioning that combine profoundly to change society. It's about half way up the list of the top 100 most influential novels of the twentieth century. The Huxley family is a British family of which several members have excelled in science, medicine, arts, and literature. The patriarch of the family was the zoologist and comparative anatomist Thomas Henry Huxley (1825–1895) his grandsons include Aldous Huxley, author of Brave New World and Doors of Perception, his brother Julian Huxley, evolutionist and first director of UNESCO, and Nobel laureate physiologist Andrew Huxley. Thomas Huxley was a close friend of Charles Darwin who is pretty central to our discussion.
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Post by Hercules on Dec 30, 2016 4:17:36 GMT
Give us more of a lesson about evolution Keith if you would be so kind,
First fish? Then What animal?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 11:55:15 GMT
Sure...  It's a bit crude but the progress from fish, to reptile, to bird and finally to human...is accurately represented. Human embryos share gill slits and tails with our ancestors...all life began in the Oceans and Lakes. In my own view, there was a moment in time when mammals split directions with Raccoons and Otters remaining near rivers and tidal pools while dogs moved inland and dolphins swam out. Elephants and Whales dominate corresponding land and water extremes. I personally, think Whales and Elephants (and Chimps) are capable of abstract thought and complex communication.
The dinosaurs were wiped out by natural catastrophe 65 million years ago...birds soon developed the vacant niche which included mammalian types. The Platypus with it's webbed feet and furry coat of a beaver contrasting the bill of a duck with egg laying capacity demonstrates diversion within evolution. Y'know, if you count the sedimentary layers in the Grand Canyon, millions of years are exposed. If you catalogue the fossils you will see the same simple to complex development that is paralleled among the higher animals. Evolution is nature's tool for shaping us. We're at the end of that road though...the strong and bright are no longer the favored candidates for survival in this non challenging environment. I'll repeat these beliefs: we are unconsciously perfecting our successors...artificial intelligence. We are also simultaneously going with a parallel and totally conscious biological solution...genetic engineering. I think nature would prefer we dabble with her plan rather than surrender our destiny to a machine. What do you think?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 3:55:30 GMT
I have always been fascinated by the fact that embryos go through a stage having gills.
Saying that I have no idea from whence we came...however i believe a creator was involved...via apes, space ships no idea really.
I am more interested in the spirit.
I believe all living creatures have spirits.
If I parked my car and it went up hill I would think I had had too much spirits or the car was called Christine.
Biological engineering and artificial intelligence....science fiction has become science fact.
Is it a good thing...I think the planet will be better off without humans although by that stage it will probably be a dead planet.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 4:12:34 GMT
Bio engineering is raising many questions regarding just what constitutes...human. If we were to develop a strain of human with the ability to breathe water  (with gills), would it still be considered human? If we could breathe methane with antifreeze for blood...we could live on Saturn's moon Titan  as....humans? Maybe we could finally get over our racial variations in the face of real differences.  |
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Post by mike412 on Jan 2, 2017 9:04:49 GMT
I had a funny thought maybe God is a monkey, he created us in his image but then we evolved lol
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 17:43:14 GMT
Lol...who knows God is to me like the wizard in the Wizard of Oz...and I do not much care how he looks as I feel and this is just me, that I have a connection with our creator, monkey ET as long as he doesnt look like my Mum I think it is all good....I woke up and read your post and laughed...nice way to start the day
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